Reformulated Discontent
ok sorry, i calmed down a bit. hope that last post gets yanked, actually. in case they do, i'm starting a new and less emotional thread. i hope i wasn't the only one who went
through some significant frustrations when just about everything went
boom on that first re-compile...here's a more articulate (i hope)
expression of my discontent.
i understand that things need to change if it's going to be done
right. however, there were many things missing that were good (i.e.
WindowsGame_Starting/Exiting overridables) that are now gone. in
addition, some changes were outright arbitrary. adding the full-screen
feature is a good example of what you *want* to do in a second beta --
though it is a basic enough feature that i personally would have
handled before i released a beta.
i've built apis before, so i know how you do it. what you want to do
*before* a beta is work out the interface as completely as possible.
in my opinion microsoft was horribly irresponsible by even calling this
a beta. i'd say the first release was more like a pre-alpha. the
*first* release after an interface "code freeze" is an alpha release.
then you find out the frozen interface has some issues so you fix them
and release a beta.
whether you agree with my classifications or not, you must agree that
we are not beta testers, we are guinea pigs -- not only in that they
are experimenting on us but also that they are dispassionate about how
their tests affect us. i saw some pretty willy-nilly changes to the
interface (i.e. changing "GameServices" to just "Services") and it
appears to me that the xna team totally reamed me here. i had a fully
working and actually *fun* game going and now i basically have to start
again from scratch -- the port is too painful. am i the only one who
has never ported an app to this extent from one beta to the very next?
again, i apologize for losing my temper, but i feel very wronged here
and i just about cried and banged my head on the desk when i realized
that no one will be able to play my game as-is since beta2 contains
massive arbitrary changes and the beta1 download was pulled off the
website.
this is not a beta, don't kid yourself. i know what a beta is and
this, my friends, is far from it. i never would have even started a
game if i knew i was helping them *form* their api and not beta testing
it. further, i will not be re-building or porting my game for xna
until it is finally out of beta. good luck to all of you who like banging your head against a wall,
though.
peace,
dave
 David Todd Kaplan wrote: |
| i understand that things need to change if it's going to be done right. however, there were many things missing that were good (i.e. WindowsGame_Starting/Exiting overridables) that are now gone. |
|
So why aren't the BeginRun/EndRun or other methods sufficient?
| David Todd Kaplan wrote: |
| i've built apis before, so i know how you do it. what you want to do *before* a beta is work out the interface as completely as possible. in my opinion microsoft was horribly irresponsible by even calling this a beta. i'd say the first release was more like a pre-alpha. the *first* release after an interface "code freeze" is an alpha release. then you find out the frozen interface has some issues so you fix them and release a beta. |
|
I've built APIs too, so what? I guess you're saying MS should have taken a couple of years to make sure they got it right before releasing it, huh? You're quibbling over terms - alpha, beta, whatever. The point still remains that it seems you were building production code with non-production tools. That's just kind of silly IMO, I'm sorry, especially since there's no reason you had to do so. You could have waited until RTM and just tested it as others are doing.
| David Todd Kaplan wrote: |
| whether you agree with my classifications or not, you must agree that we are not beta testers, we are guinea pigs |
|
I'd say we're both. What's wrong with that? We are beta testers. Have you seen all the bugs reported by people? That's what beta testers do, right? I'm perfectly happy with being a guinea pig too. The chance to help shape tools I'll be using and get familiar with it before it's released - priceless.
| David Todd Kaplan wrote: |
| -- not only in that they are experimenting on us but also that they are dispassionate about how their tests affect us. i saw some pretty willy-nilly changes to the interface (i.e. changing "GameServices" to just "Services") and it appears to me that the xna team totally reamed me here. i had a fully working and actually *fun* game going and now i basically have to start again from scratch -- the port is too painful. am i the only one who has never ported an app to this extent from one beta to the very next? |
|
Of course not. I've had to make changes to tons of code before. So what? Again, BETA (or alpha or whatever you want to call it).
| David Todd Kaplan wrote: |
| again, i apologize for losing my temper, but i feel very wronged here and i just about cried and banged my head on the desk when i realized that no one will be able to play my game as-is since beta2 contains massive arbitrary changes and the beta1 download was pulled off the website. |
|
How have you been wronged?!? When did MS ever promise that what they released would stay as it was in beta 1?!?
| David Todd Kaplan wrote: |
| this is not a beta, don't kid yourself. i know what a beta is and this, my friends, is far from it. i never would have even started a game if i knew i was helping them *form* their api and not beta testing it. further, i will not be re-building or porting my game for xna until it is finally out of beta. good luck to all of you who like banging your head against a wall, though. |
|
I've seen some betas that were even shakier than beta 1. Again, it seems you're quibbling over terms just because your code is broken. Again, why would you start building a production game with beta tools?!? Why would it have been so hard to port from beta 1 to beta 2?
